Hoot Gibson Remembered
I first met Hoot back in November of 2012. I flew to Las Vegas to interview him for a possible book about his experience with TWA 841. His health and memory were in decline even back then. I spent three days interviewing Hoot, and while I thought he had an interesting story to tell, his inability to remember important details made me reconsider the idea for a book. When I got back from my visit, I discovered three cartons of documents sent to me by Hoot. A few weeks later I received a fourth carton of documents. I soon discovered that inside those cartons was everything I needed to tell Hoot’s story. Hoot had the foresight to save everything related to TWA 841. It took me the better part of a year-and-a-half to go through those documents. It was from those thousands of pages that Hoot sent me that I was able to piece together the missing parts of Hoot’s story.
I’ve been a pilot for a very long time. I have about as many hours of flight time as Hoot had. But Hoot has me beat on a number of fronts. Hoot flew everything from the Ford Tri-motor to the Boeing 747. He flew aerobatics; he flew helicopters, he had a license to fly hot air balloons, and he also had a seaplane license.
In April of 1982, Hoot attended the deposition of one of the NTSB investigators. During a lunch recess, Hoot pulled the investigator aside to have a frank discussion. I talked about that deposition in the post silenced. The lawyer representing the NTSB investigator asked that Hoot be removed. But before that could happen Hoot got a chance to tell his side of the story. That’s when Hoot made the following comment: “I said I was going to pursue this as long as I live if it took that long because we have got convicted of doing something we did not do.” Hoot kept his promise. He knew that one day the truth about what happened to him and his crew would come to light. That day has now arrived – read the book Scapegoat to learn what actually happened (Hint – it’s not the nonsense in the Air Disasters episode.).
I was going to include a picture of a sunset with this post, but I remembered a picture I took recently as we were taking off from Toronto, Canada. As we lined up for takeoff the sun broke through the clouds and lit up the departure corridor. I think this picture is a better way to remember Hoot as he takes off for another journey.
Hoot Gibson 8/6/34 – 01/31/15.
Update:
Services for Hoot will be held on Monday February 23, 2015 at 12:40 P.M. at the Southern Nevada Veterans Memorial Cemetery, 1900 Veterans Memorial Drive, Boulder City, Nevada, 89005. In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the Nevada State Veterans Home, NVAL account, 100 Veterans Memorial Drive, Boulder City, Nevada, 89005. After the services, a “celebration of life” will be held at a hanger at the Boulder City Airport.
that’s a beautiful picture. makes me tear up all over again. have an excellent journey, hoot. thanks for the wonderful memories.
RIP, Hoot. You were one great man!
No. He was an ordinary man who exercised very bad judgement as a command pilot that nearly cost him and the people who relied on him for safety, their lives. No matter how likeable and charismatic he may have been, he was a bad pilot. By the way, bad judgement decisions, similar to the one he made, account for around 80 percent of the fatal crashes of transport category aircraft.
Hello John. Did you ever have a chance to talk personally with Hoot after this incident? Or how about FO Scott Kennedy? Or read Emilio’s “Scapegoat…”? Hoot did not cause this incident (nor did any of the crew). Instead Hoot and the crew responded with their skills and professionalism, even using a last ditch effort to save the airplane and everyone on board. Including me.
No. And I wouldn’t have been inclined to talk to him after what he did, and afterward, without even having the fortitude to level with the NTSB for the sake of the truth and to establish publicly with the authorities what not to do to, in order to prevent fatal airplane crashes.
You, clearly, don’t know what you are talking about, because you are not a trained pilot and don’t know about, or understand aviation, the Federal Aviation Regulations, nor have you read the NTSB Crash Report, OR have even watched the Smithsonian Channel’s excellent documentary about, TWA’s near tragedy, described in the excellent TV documentary, Air Disasters. At the time this incident was made public, the FAA, the NTSB, and anyone, and, certainly, any pilot, like me, who was familiar with the 727 circuit breaker trick and the regulations regarding pulling them in flight, that Gibson broke, and illegally tampered with, knew EXACTLY what exactly Capt. Gibson did, and why what he did, was, self evidently, nearly fatal for the himself, his flight crew, and his passengers WHEN THE FLIGHT ENGINEER PUSHED THE BREAKER BACK IN. Every pilot in the country knew immediately, that he was guilty of getting caught for being both reckless AND stupid. I am not going to try to educate you about the aviation industry, since it would be hard to do on this forum. And, from what you have already written, I don’t believe anything I might tell to you would change your mind, since you seem to have formed your opinion about what kind of person Gibson was, based on your ignorance of how agregiously dangerous, reckless, and illegal what he did was. Your thoughts about a really bad guy, in my opinion, are strictly based on how you feel about him, personally, which actually, has no bearing on the serious nature of what he did, that YOU have decided were innocent and minor actions, but, in realty, were, and still, are, inexcusable, regarding resetting his flaps to 2 degrees at cruise altitude and speed, and simultaneously and deliberately pulling the slat circuit breaker to keep them from deploying – a criminally illegal action that should have gotten him fired from flying ( It did at TWA.) and, in some countries, would have bought Gibson a jail sentence, as well. As it was, without knowing for sure, I suspect his flying career as a transport pilot, was finished because after an incident, such as the fatal crash, he nearly caused, would probably have precluded any insurance company from ever insuring any carrier foolish enough to hire him again after what he did.
~ And, finally, if you had been one of the passengers that got a free high speed ride, upside down, toward the ground, vomiting, and involuntarily fouling your pants and underwear, while screaming your guts out, as you were anticipating the sure end of your life, when you hit the ground ~ if you would still be such a great fan of Capt. Gibson’s. ~ I bet, not so much.
Mr. Young, you are a very sad person who has a very sad life. I’m sorry for your comment on this site. It is not deserved as you do not know what you are talking about. You never knew Hoot, you put a comment on this site after 5 years. Reallly?
Very insulting and disgusting. Get a life.
Your comment is not worthy of a reply because it has nothing to do with the subject at hand, regarding the near fatal crash of TWA’s 727 that Captain Gibson nearly caused. But, it is nothing more than childish name calling, and a Saul Alinsky type of response, to my comment because you, in fact, simply don’t like what I have written, and cannot challenge what l wrote, on it’s face or merits, because you are the one who doesn’t know anything about this event or aviation, and, clearly, aren’t interested in what really happened. However, I will comment on a sad fact of the times we live in, exemplified by your comment. And that is the reality, that so many people, such as yourself, just BELIEVE, mostly, only what they want to believe, rather than testing reality by seeking and taking note of factual information that, in realty, is what really establishes what the real truth of a matter usually is, unlike what the trained investigators in the NTSB and the FAA did, which was to have investigated and found out about TWA’s near crash, that was it was CAUSED by Gibson, and not saved, by his actions. If you really knew anything of value about this tragedy, you would also know that the facts of a matter are what really establish the truth. And you would also know that the idea that Gibson and his copilot SAVED their airplane from crashing, is absolutely false and fantasy because it was the timely separation of the number 7 slat, that failed and separated from the right wing’s leading edge, under the extreme overspeed air loads from the dive that the airplane was in, just barely in time, that allowed the two pilots to recover from the right rolling motion of the plane (caused by the jammed deployed slat) . And that, seemingly, miraculous event was what allowed the two pilots to be able to level their airplane from it’s upside down spiraling motion, and, then, allowed them to be able to pull out of the dive they were in, just barely in time, to save the airplane from crashing. But. of course, I have wasted both of our times by writing you these things because you are not interested in them and are not interested in learning anything, in order to learn the truth about this incident and Captain Gibson’s criminally negligent and illegal behavior.
John, the reason for the animosity you are receiving is because the arguments you are making have already been disproven. The NTSB and Boeing got it wrong. The #7 slat had nothing to do with the incident. There are plenty of posts on this site that dispute the NTSB’s probable cause. Just go to the sitemap page and select Scapegoat in the categories section. You can hear from both Hoot and Scott Kennedy. There are numerous videos. I wrote an entire book that puts the mystery of what happened to rest. I gave the producers of Terror Over Michigan a copy of the book. Read my review of that documentary on this site. If the NTSB and Boeing got it wrong, and the producers rely solely on the NTSB report, then you end up with a documentary that only spreads misinformation.
Be sorry and sad for you own comments, not mine. My comments are demonstrably the truth, which most people find hard to face up to, as it is in this case. But what is really insulting to me are people who honor no one by creating false heroes out of people who are no such thing. And that is what you and others have mindlessly done. That is insulting to the real American “heroes” inside aviation and outside, such as Captain “Sully” Sullivan and so many others, who’s career actions are without the stains that Captain Gibson left on his.
Emilio, the greatest thing we can help do to honor Hoot’s memory is to get your book published, with ALL the facts–those very relevant facts that “somehow” got suppressed in order to blame-shift and scapegoat Hoot, Scott, and Gary. God bless you, brother Hoot–so glad we were able to exchange a final email communication with each other just last year (thanks to Emilio’s website).
I was hoping that my father would make it to have a chance to read and sign a copy of your book Emillio but, an aging donor heart and the stress of life I guess had taken their toll on dad. I am grateful he knew that his story would be told. I know he was very pleased to have another seasoned veteran at the controls telling that story as well. Still not quite sinking in he’s really gone. I will be seeing you soon Captain Hoot Gibson.
Kevin, just want you to know that your dad is one of my heroes. He, Scott, and Gary saved my life that night — as well as their own lives! — and the lives of the other crew members and passengers. Captain Hoot Gibson is a hero! May God comfort you, Kevin, in the loss of your father.
Thank you Roger. I had many discussions of dad remaining connected to a few of the passengers aboard flight 841. I appreciate your support of my father and the entire crew of that 727. I believe their actions that night were nothing short of miraculous and heroic. Hoot was also graced with another 15 years with us through the miraculous gift of a donor heart. I have no doubt God was very gracious to my father and those who were placed in his loving care. Thank you again for taking the time to pay your respects to the memory of my father. God bless you and yours sir.
I guess I just have gotten too jaded to gush over the unrealty so many people seem to live in these days. The NTSB didn’t think Gibson was any kind of hero, nor did the people he nearly killed. I understand the sadness you and others feel for someone who was, likely, to you, and others who knew and liked him, a very nice guy, and a good man in many ways, too. But real American heroes, now long forgotten by most Americans, still too young and uneducated to remember them, the men who flew, fought, and died for the entire free world’s freedom, at places, like, Ploesti, Romania, Foggia, Italy, Holland, France, and Germany, and all over Europe, Germany, the Balkan States, and the Pacific Theater of Operations, did not create the deadly incidents that cost them their lives. You can think whatever you like, and honor and believe in whoever you want, to be your heroes. But, next to the men l mentioned, Capt. Gibson’s actions don’t qualify him for those honors, in my opinion.
Keven I was a flight attendant on many of Hoots flights. I always felt like I had the king of the pilots flying my plane..Everyone loved him..Best of all was his humor…We were lucky to have him in our lives. I know that the memories you have will have will help you through this time…thanks you..
Thank you Sharon. He hee! I guess that’s where I get my sense of humor. I’ve always had a whit for injecting a laugh into an environment. One of the many things I reckon Hoot passed on to me. His love and respect for others is another one I believe he handed over to me as well. Thank you for taking the time to pay your respects to the memory of my father and your Captain and friend. God bless you and yours Sharon.
My Father Steve and Mother Shannon (TWA crew) both knew and were close with Hoot. He was great to me when I myself was very sick as a 20 year old… I will always remember and think happy thoughts about Hoot. He is a staple of conversation and pride in our whole aviation heavy family. I wish I could have met him in person but our phone chats while I was sick and years after were amazing and I will always be proud to have had that time with him. <3
And your impression of him are, likely, part of what was wrong with him, an apparent self loving narcissist who’s whole being and existence was all about himself, not safety, or his job, or the well being of those who depended on him for their lives. For instance, and again, by Federal Law, his humor had no place in the cockpit of TWA’s 727, and his actions that nearly brought his plane down were, by Federal Law (Federal Aviation Regulations), reckless, illegal, and incomprehensible to me. You yourself exhibit some of his narcissism. YOU liked him because he made YOU laugh ! As they say, these days, “Are you kidding ? ” Airline captains are in the cockpit to fly as safely as they can, NOT to make anyone laugh. The airline could hire clowns for that. But, you wouldn’t have been laughing so hard, had you been working the TWA flight that rolled over and dived toward the ground at close to the speed of sound. Or, correct me, if you would have liked Capt. Gibson,so much, or would have been in stitches over that joke of Gibson’s after being a rider on his funny diving airplane joke ? By the way, did you ever run across the numbers of what the cause of about 80 % of fatal airline crashes is ? It’s called, by the FAA, one of the known “Dirty Dozen” attitudes of pilots, among others, that cause fatal crashes : complacency, leading to pilot errors, usually basic student pilot flying errors that senior captains should never make. And those same senior pilots’ errors in judgement, or basic flying errors, like Capt. Gibson made, are the cause of 80 % of those crashes. No matter what you and a number of others on this blog write, so foolishly, about what you think, rather than about what is KNOWN, not guessed at about, Gibson’s deliberately setting his flaps to 2 degrees in high altitude cruise flight, along with reaching around to the flight engineer’s panel, while the FE was out of the cockpit, also illegal, and pulling the spoiler CB (circuit breaker) because Gibson knew that the spoilers’ deployment at speed would be catastrophic, was egregiously ILLEGAL and reckless, again, no matter what you think about it. And the results of his actions, the loss of control of his airplane, that nearly killed everyone on board, itself, PROVES, how terribly wrong and insane what he did was ! Yet, was Gibson ever contrite about how criminally negligent his piloting was, or did he ever admit to what everyone but he, knew that he did ? No. He spent the rest of his life trying to CLEAR HIS NAME because, in his mind, THAT was the paramount issue, certainly not flight safety, or the fact he nearly killed a planeload of innocent people, but it was all about him and never giving up the con, even after being caught in the criminal act. But Gibson hardly did convince anyone with any real knowledge about this near crash, except himself, of his innocence. Still, I’m glad he made you laugh. But I’m not laughing. – Nor did the NTSB, who, after one of the longest crash investigations ever made, they stated that Gibson had nearly caused a fatal crash by tampering with the flaps and slat circuit breakers, which sent the aircraft into a near fatal dive, and, when the Flight Engineer pushed the slat CB back in place, deploying the slats, that caused the slats to deploy and the #7 slat to break off because of the impossible air loads on it, and depart the airplane, which was the timely miracle that SAVED the flight, not any heroics by the two pilots, who, incidentally, did, finally, pull the plane out of it’s dive after the #7 slat broke off and stopped rolling the airplane to the right.
I am another TWA pilot who knew Hoot as the great person he was. Here is a copy of the email I sent to Bill Kirschner former president of TARPA, and retired pilot.
Bill,
Hoot was in a Boulder City VA facility for the past 3 months. Lois (wife/ girlfriend?) had him put there because was difficult to handle.
He was a survivor, as we know. 15 years ago he had a heart transplant, and 5 years ago a kidney transplant.
Bonnie a close friend visited him on Thursday and Friday of this last week and said he was good. He always recognized people, but sometimes his memories would take him on his own journeys.
Another retired pilot visited him Friday night(?), but Hoot’s roommate said he was not responsive.
Hoot passed on at 5:30 Saturday morning.
He will be cremated, and there will be no funeral as such.
The thought is to have a memorial in August on his 81st birthday to celebrate his life.
If you have any input about that (i.e.. some TWA get together etc.) I am sure that would be appreciated.
There is an author who is writing about Hoot and Flight 841 named Emilo Corsetti who was trying to help him clear his name from back in 1979.
https://emiliocorsetti.com/news/ Please go to his web site.
Hoot as I remember him was a good man, always with a smile and great sense of humor.
I hope that is helpful to you
Ed
Ed, as one of Hoot’s passengers that nite, I’d sure like to know when/where his memorial service will be, and then consider whether I could attend or not. I suspect some other passengers may also like that opportunity, if the family would allow us to attend.
Roger Peterson
Roger,
Please leave a note for Kevin Paul Gibson, as he is Hoot’s son. He would know more, about any future memorials planned.
Ed
I think you have his date of birth off by quite a few years. He would have been born in 1934 not 1954. I knew Hoot back in the day and was still a flight attendant when he had ‘that flight’. I don’t know any details, just know that Hoot was a hoot to fly with – super guy – great personality! RIP Sky Pilot…
Sorry about that. Just a typo.
I remember Hoot back in the 1980’s . He was a very nice man . And I was just a teenager back then , I thought he knew everything about planes that one could know. May God Bless his family .
Rest in Paradise Hoot ❤️
I can’t wait to read the book .
I knew Hoot during the investigation and afterward, but lost contact some years ago. I am quite certain Hoot was a hero for saving the flight, not a perpatrater of the accident as the NTSB portrayed. It was a process to support a conclusion, not a process to find one. I am happy to have known Hoot. He did a helluva job. I wish I could have served him better. If I can contribute to his legacy and his memorial in any way, I would like to know.
My husband and I both flew with “Hoot”. He was always professional and extremely competent with a great sense of humor. We enjoyed the times we shared dinner and drinks. Safe and smooth flight West, Captain Gibson.
I have so many memories that I can’t imagine telling them all of the excitement and fun that he provided not only to me but thousands of others.
He will always be remembered as my brother-in-law the Hero!
I just reconnected with hoot, he was friends with my father Steve, another twa captain.id like to connect and swap stories with anyone interested. Kevin, you especially. Please email me if possible. [email protected]
Hey there Kassie. I would love to exchange memories of Hoot with you. You may even have more than me as I never had much contact with my father as my parents divorced while I was just an infant. I will look forward to hearing what you might have to say gratefully. I do cherish the many years of conversations I had with dad over the phone and the few times we did get to get together in this life. I did get to be one of his first visitors at UCLA Medical Center following his heart transplant. He was up walking around like nothing had happened. An amazing man. God bless you and yours Kassie. Kevin
To have met Hoot is to never forget him…he left that huge of an impression on you. You NEVER had a frown on your face when Hoot was around…more like a bad case of the giggles. Honestly, over the past 20 years, I have thought about him often….wondering where he was and what he was up to. Somehow I just never thought that I would not see him again…..Hoot, goodbye my friend….Have fun in the big hangar in the heavens!!!!!
Hello, my mom Linda was Hoot’s heart donor. My heart is broken by the loss of this wonderful man I knew for a short 11 1/2 years. Every time we spoke or saw each other he always told me how much he appeticated his gift. I will miss our long conversations, his hugs and his genuine love for my husband and children. I love you Hoot and you will be deeply missed. Always Kristine
Wow, your words of appreciation for Hoot are indeed touching my soul. As much as I am grateful to God for an additional 15 years of conversations with my father I am also so sad it took the loss of your mother to bring this about. So mysterious are the ways of God. As large a character Hoot was in the aviation field he was also a grateful soul who never looked down upon others with an ego or as superior. He just loved life and lived it to the fullest. Many comments in this thread on Emilio’s blog are bringing healing to my soul. Yours will probably be as the Healing Balms of Gilead mentioned in the bible. God bless you Kristine and all in your household as well. Kevin
Hoot Gibson was one of a kind, an expression often used but never more true. Another cliché that comes to mind is ‘larger than life.’
We first met in the seventies. I was a young pilot flying Grand Canyon tours for Scenic Airlines, and Hoot was already a local legend in the aviation fraternity. Besides being a TWA Captain and owning his own airplane, he would spend is days off doing, what else, flying the classic Ford Tri-Motor for Scenic. He’d let me ride along in the right seat, which I remember like it was yesterday. “Why don’t you take it for a bit,” he said to me on my first flight. “It’s just like flying a tool shed.”
We became good friends immediately, and even back then I thought someone should write a book about this guy. He would invite me to fly up to his place in Utah, where a group of friends and families would camp out for the weekend. Hoot’s version of camping meant a huge barbeque, a bunch of people playing the guitar around the campfire, skeet shooting on the home made range, and a bombing competition where bags of flour were dropped from low-flying Cessnas over a giant bullseye in a field. This was the place where Hoot threw a going away party for me on the day before I took a detour from civilian flying to go in the Air Force. On the night before I was to drive to San Antonio to report for training, we were heading up the hill to Hoot’s cabin. He had no headlights, so I rode on top of the truck, holding a flashlight. When it suddenly became darker, he and the others realized I had disappeared back at the last turn. They found me lying on the road, unconscious, and loaded me into the back of the truck. On the drive to Texas the next morning, I couldn’t be sure whether the headache was from the hangover or from using a shovel for a pillow, but it was a going away party I’ve never forgotten.
Hoot flew out to Oklahoma just to attend my graduation from Air Force Pilot training, and over the years we would get together for all kinds of moonlighting adventures – recovering stolen airplanes from Mexico, ‘unofficial support flying’ in Central America, training in Sri Lanka, and so on. Although he was more famous for being a character and of course the flight over Flint, Michigan in 1979, those who flew with Hoot also knew him as one of those rare individuals who could fly anything. He was perfectly comfortable alternating between the 727 and the Tri-Motor from one day to the next, and when I put him in the T-38 simulator in Oklahoma, and later in the Space Shuttle simulator while I was at NASA, he would jump in, still making jokes, and make the technicians’ jaws drop with his uncanny natural flying skills.
Hoot had a heart as big as a house and was generous to a fault. There was nothing he wouldn’t do for a friend. And he sure loved Lois, his Guardian Angel. I don’t think I ever had a conversation with him, and the last one was three weeks ago, when he didn’t go on about how she was probably the only person in the world who would put up with him. She just called me with the news, and I still can’t believe it. I thought he would live forever. I used to joke with him that he was my hero, and he would always laugh. But I wasn’t really joking. I’m sure going to miss him.
Hello Stilly. I want to thank you for sharing some stories of your time with Hoot on this thread. Wow, I knew my dad was a bit crazy so thanks for sharing some of that. LOL ! I am certain that’s where I get a load of my crazy from in a good way of course. I really would love to have someone compile a list of Hoot’s life and write a book on it. That man did more with the time given him on this earth than a dozen or so folks just going through the motions. Thanks again for sharing some vivid and colorful memories here my friend. We’ll both be missing Hoot for certain. Kevin
Thank you, Kevin. I am so sorry for your loss. I think these posts from people whose lives were touched by knowing your dad give you an idea how many feel a deep sense of loss by his passing. My wife, having seen me deal with the deaths of many friends and relatives over the last two decades, asked me why it was so different, so much more difficult this time. I told her that only people who knew your dad could understand. I wish you the best, sir.
Hey there again Stilly. It’s been over a week now since Hoot passed over into eternity and only now have I began to get emotional and teary eyed over this loss. I know my dad was a “father” figure or role model to many young aviators and I never had that opportunity as Hoot was deeply involved with clearing his name and those of the crew of TWA flight 841. If you would consider sharing with me some time in the future some of your memories I would deeply appreciate it. I will leave my e-mail address below. Thank you again for taking the time to honor Hoot with your thoughts and memories. It certainly means a lot to me personally. Sincerely, Kevin
Kevin Gibson e-mail: [email protected]
I would be happy to do that, anytime.
I am a contemporary of Hoot from back in the Connie days. Through our careers our paths crossed often, but no time more significantly following the upset of TW841. At the time, I was a member of ALPA accident investigation committee and participated in the investigation. What came out of it was the first (of many to follow) really political accident reports in my opinion.
The boxes of papers you have may contain some with my name. If you’d like to talk more about the investigation, feel free to contact me.
I was married to Hoot in Costa Rica. I do know all about his 841 incident and as a lawyer I did go to the Pilots Association and tried to help him out with the reopening of his case with NTSB. During the years, although separated, we did keep in contact. I had four children from a former marriage and they loved him very much. My oldest daughter Gabriela, also a lawyer, visited him about a year ago, along with her husband. My grandchilren met him also . He was very fond of them and with the rest of our family in C.R. He was a great guy and we will miss him. I am so glad to hear Kevins`s comments because he did talk a lot about him all the time. We would be very glad to be in contact with you Kevin….Gloria
Thank you Gloria for your gracious words. It humbles me to hear that dad was thinking about me while being a part of your family as well. I am grateful you were all able to maintain contact with him after being separated. I really missed being more involved with Hoot while he was here with us. It nice to know there are those willing to share their memories and hearts with me following his passing. I think I might have made contact with one of your sons through a You Tube video about flight 841 Gloria. I believe I replied to a comment beneath the video from one of your sons. I would enjoy hearing from you in the future. Learning more about Hoot’s relationships and activities is helping me adjust to his departure from this earthly plane. A play on words so to speak. God bless you Gloria and all your beloved family as well. Kevin
To contact me I will leave my e-mail address below.
[email protected]
Dear Kevin, and all of Hoots friends and family:
We have just learned of Hoot’s demise, down here in Costa Rica, where he has a large number of admiring friends. I myself am one of those, with cherished memories of our times together over many years. I would much appreciate any news about Hoot and the arrangements you are making for him. Thanks, Steven Wroe
Greetings to all who have taken time out of their lives to share some memories of their relationships with Hoot Gibson. I can only express my gratitude in that your words are brining a healing to my own soul and assisting me in coping with the loss of my father. I just finished talking with Lois on the phone and she is still compiling information to create an obituary for Hoot to be placed on the internet. I can only imagine the list of things Hoot managed to do in his life time would make for a novel of an obituary to say the least. Currently no date has been chosen for any memorial arrangements or services for Hoot. I will be keeping in touch with Lois and forward any new information I receive in regards to a gathering in remembrance of Hoot Gibson’s life. Once again I appreciate you all and the influence my father had on each of your lives personally. If anyone wishes to contact me I will be leaving my e-mail address below. May the grace of God bring each and everyone of you healing for the loss you have experienced as much as myself at this time. Peace. Kevin Gibson
E-mail Kevin Gibson: [email protected]
I was a friend of Hoot, introduced to him through our mutual friend, Steven Wroe. In 1980, Hoot spent many days at my house in Virginia discussing 841. I’d written a book about aviation — Hoot liked it — and asked me if I would write the story of 841. Due to his declining health at the time (before his transplant), we couldn’t find a workable plan to do that, but for several years I had all those cartons of documentation in my house before I returned them. I would like to stay in touch. Hoot, sit tibi terra levis, my friend.
A day hasn’t gone by without thinking about Hoot. I met Hoot in the late 60’s at LAX as a junior co-pilot on the 727. For a new green co-pilot he was a wonderful mentor and a really fun guy to work with. When Hoot married Sandy I took his place with his old room mate in Venice. Hoot was never boastful of the many things he had done and so most of his legend came from stories we all had heard.
on Christmas day 1975 I called Hoot and asked him if he could recommend a chapel to get married in the next day. Hoot got the chapel, Kathy and I got hitched and Hoot had a reception at his house for us. Hoot was a humble and loving friend and I will miss him. My wife Kathy and I will celebrate our 40th Anniversary this Dec., Thanks for a good start Hoot.
John van den Bosch, my Dutch brother-in-law who lives with his family in Schiedam, Holland, met Hoot years ago down here in Costa Rica. He writes thus:
“Steven and Teresita,
Sorry to read that Hoot passed away at the age of 80.
Although Ileana and I have not seen him for at least 20 years, we clearly remember Hoot.
How can you forget him. Always positive and lots of humor.
How can you forget him. Our famous trip to David, Chiriqui in Panama with Abuela in the disco.
How can you forget him. The man that fell from the sky.
A new heart gave him an additional 15 years.
I know one thing for sure.
It became less funny on earth, but they just stated a hell of a party in heaven.”
John van den Bosch | Office +31 70 4136551 | Mobile +31 65 1130727
As surviving passengers of Flight 841, Hoot’s heroic rescue of our flight will be forever enshrined in our hearts. We were most fortunate to meet and spend time with Hoot when we participated in the making of the film, “The Plane That Fell From the Sky” and still have a beautiful letter which he sent us as well as a couple of memorable pictures. Our thoughts and prayers go out to all his loved ones and especially to his son, Kevin. They have our deepest condolences. We pray they take comfort in Hoot’s remarkable legacy and find peace knowing he is with God.
A resounding “Amen!” to everything you’ve shared here, Charles & Mary. While I clearly give credit to Jesus for my first salvation 2,000 years ago at Calvary, I give credit for my “second salvation” to Hoot (Scott & Gary) that April evening in 1979. Hoot gave me — and you two and everyone else on board that night — another chance to live. Thank you again, Captain Gibson! I will never forget you!!
To Charles & Mary Butera, and Roger Peterson. Your exchange has been yet another one of the many blessings received through this thread. THANK YOU EMILIO ! I have to imagine he is viewing this as well and wish to extend my personal gratitude to him for making this forum possible.
Back to you three graciously and miraculously spared survivors of TWA flight 841. Although I never enjoyed spending much time living near Hoot we did manage to keep in touch over the phone. I just wanted to share his faith in our blessed redeemer Jesus the Christ of Nazareth. We had many conversations revolving around our Father in heaven and how he “may have” intervened on that night your flight began to plummet toward the earth. Kudos to the crew of flight 841 for quick response and adjustments to the dire situation at hand but, dad and I believe there was additional help from on high. I wish to convey that it brings me much comfort to know the prayers of the passengers aboard that flight were heard and moved the hand of God that night into a truly miraculous rescue. That’s what I believe and I have stated that on You Tube videos in the comment section beneath “The Plane That Fell From The Sky” videos carrying the actual documentary in which you participated. Caught some flak from a few atheists but, held my ground. I also thank you for sharing your respect to my father and wish to confirm that Hoot will INDEED live again through the power of Christ Jesus’ resurrection. Looking forward to being all gathered together soon and very soon in Jesus’ name. Sincerely Kevin Gibson
Thank you Kevin and Roger for your faith-filled confirmations. We have always believed in the Lord’s intervention that fateful night. We believe it was providential that Hoot’s unique gifts and wealth of flying experience prepared him to be God’s instrument in those crucial moments. Hoot’s being there for us was no coincidence but preordained for the Lord’s purposes. Like Roger, we remember God’s mercy with gratitude and try not to take for granted the gift of new life. We owe so much to Hoot — and by extension we feel obligated to use this gift to give testimony and to benefit others..
There was no question that we were all plunging (rapidly accelerating) to our deaths that night — roughly a 6.5 mile nosedive. Then 20 minutes after the 3.9g recovery (thank you Lord for confirming in Hoot’s heart & mind to drop the gear as a last-ditch effort!), Hoot had to land our badly damaged bird at a much higher rate of speed, without flaps, pulling hard to the right (if I recall), on gear which at the time only Hoot, Scott, and Gary knew were damaged and may not hold. Although it was a harder-than-normal set-down, it was actually a pretty decent landing. Only Captain Gibson, whom I have since learned could fly almost anything, could have done that. So in reality, God used Hoot to save all our lives a SECOND time that night. And as I processed my own personal “why am I still alive?”, I came to the conclusion that God was not done with me yet. Processing this entire event is one of the key things that led me into full-time ministry, starting a Christian mission organization in 1984. Many, many more people around the world have heard the Good News of Jesus Christ as a result. Whether he realized it or not, Hoot’s remarkable flying skills can be credited not only for saving the passengers and crew TWICE that night, but also many other people in many other nations which Hoot never knew. Hoot’s my hero!
And some people today still don’t believe in miracles or divine intervention. Wonderful testimony my friend. I would love to exchange additional information with you Roger. Would you mind shooting me an e-mail so we can share through that means? I would appreciate it. God is very good. Kevin
Services for Hoot will be held on Monday February 23, 2015 at 12:40 P.M. at the Southern Nevada Veterans Memorial Cemetery, 1900 Veterans Memorial Drive, Boulder City, Nevada, 89005. In lieu of flowers, donations can be made to the Nevada State Veterans Home, NVAL account, 100 Veterans Memorial Drive, Boulder City, Nevada, 89005. After the services, a “celebration of life” will be held at a hanger at the Boulder City Airport.
Greetings to all friends of our beloved Hoot Gibson. Lois just posted this this morning and I am passing along this information. I am going to try and make it once I figure out a few more details. I encourage all who desire to pay their respects and honor Captain Harvey Glenn “Hoot” Gibson’s memory to attend. I am sure a few who have commented in this thread will be in attendance and I so very much am looking forward to making your acquaintance. May God bless you all and provide safe travel for those who will be attending. Kevin Gibson
Kevin — checking into tickets now. I really want to be there if at all possible.
That would be a blessing if you can attend. Waiting for a call to figure out how I might be traveling. I do plan on being there for certain. God bless brother. Kevin
I wish that I could be there for Hoot’s celebration of life, but cannot. I will be there in spirit!!! I think it would be most wonderful if somebody (ies) could organize another celebration here in Chicago, where Hoot started, and ended, his flying career. I had the honor of working Hoot’s “last leg” of his TWA career…Flight 771 from London Heathrow to Chicago. To end his career in Chicago was his wish. His “last” retirement party was here in Chicago… Wishful thinking on my behalf, perhaps, but then………?????!!!!!!????
you were so lucky to be on that crew, margie. i would have killed for the opportunity.
Hey Marge. I am not much at organizing things but, I do consider your suggestion a wonderful idea. I know it’s difficult for everybody Hoot had met over the course of his illustrious life and career to attend the Boulder City services. Perhaps a few folks will make something happen even if it’s just a small gathering. I would be interested in attending such an event. God bless you and yours. Kevin
Kevin, I am putting out feelers to both venues and people interested. I have a bar located close to the airport that I have hosted a fund raiser before…..that is a possibility. The issue is how many people would attend (and when it comes to your dad…the numbers could be larger than this location can accommodate. This “party” would also require people to pay to attend….I am not rich, nor do I have the means or time to raise funds right now…but I know that there are so many people here in Chicago that would be so happy to attend to honor and celebrate your dad…. I would love it if Lois could come and attend…I never had the pleasure of meeting the one woman who stood by our “wild and crazy man” (as Steve Martin would say….) as she did. Let’s just see how this plays out. If I can make it happen, I will do it. Promise! Marge Hey….you!…out there!! reading this!!!! If you can help…..contact me at: [email protected]. If this comes to fruition. I also am wondering if….and IF…this comes to fruition…may I quote some of the stories that fellow friends of Hoot have posed. I would love to put together a small pamphlet with some of them. Also would welcome any pictures that I could put onto/into something for people to see at the gathering. Marge
Hoot once landed a plane in my front yard.
R.i.P
Lisa, thanks. We ALL felt privileged to be the crew to accompany him “home”. Many of us also thoroughly enjoyed ourselves the night before at Hoot’s retirement party in London. Started at the Dukes next door to the hotel, moved across the street to the Indian Restaurant, closed that place down, and ended up back at the Kensington Hilton in the lounge for a bit before retiring for the rest of what time we had left for sleeping! I surely am going to miss him! What a guy!!!!!!
Why is this NO surprise to me. He hee. I am sure their are many other similar stories from back in the day and I have heard a few. I’ll bet he didn’t even rough up the turf. Kevin
Kevin, family and friends,
My Dad (Hal Jones) was one of your Dad’s good friends. Anytime they were together you just new something exciting was about to happen, Tragically Dad died in a helicopter accident in the eighties, after that (even before) Hoot was always there keeping all of us kids going down the right path.
Your Dad has been one of my Hero’s since the early seventies. It warms my heart to read so many wonderful things about him here. I wanted to share a few short stories for you and the others. I could go on and on with flying stories but think I will go a different direction.
When I was in my md twenties I felt like I had finally met my soul mate and on our second date I had to take her to the hospital to meet your dad (I wanted his approval) Your dad was in the hospital because his gout had gotten so bad, the night we got there he was telling us they wanted to amputate his arm. Of course he wasn’t going to let that happen, he checked his self out and went to Coasta Rica to see a witch doctor to fix him up. It worked he kept the arm!! A Miracle!! I mention this only because Hoot loved my date (she and I were married shortly after) and as you will read later little did my wife know how much Hoot would be a part of our lives.
I could tell a lot more stories….
Then Hoot’s heart is giving out and he goes on the transplant list. I remember like it was yesterday, your dad called me telling me he was being prepped for a new heart.. I called Lois and she and I decided we would drive down together to be with him. We got there early in the morning and were nervous with what we would find. Lois and I walked down the hall in the ICU looking in each room trying to find him and as we got to the last room here is his name on the chart. Lois held my hand and asked me to look in first to see what he looked like?? As I came around the corner here Hoot is standing beside his bed doing a dance, I pulled Lois up beside me to see what he was doing. Hoot looks up and see’s us both and yells for us to get over there and give him hugs and kisses. The tears were flowing . Hoot later told me has was dancing because for the first time in a while he could feel his feet and he wanted to see what it felt like to stand up. Another miracle in Hoot’s life!!!
I could tell a lot more stories….
After a number of years Hoot’s kidney’s fail due to all the medicine he was taking for his heart. Once again he is accepted and placed on the transplant list. He was getting weaker and weaker having to go to dialysis every other day. It was heart breaking seeing him going through this. What are the odds?? At last your Dad was told there was a kidney for him. My wife and I were with your Dad and Lois at UCLA when he was getting his new kidney. There was a lot of tears, hugs and prayers and Hoot was taken away for surgery around four a.m. We waited for hours for news on how things went, finally the Doctor comes out and tells us everything went GREAT!!!
I have to add here while waiting I was honored to meet Kristine, it was her mother’s heart that had allowed Hoot to have so many wonderful years of life. She had stopped in to check on Hoot, turns out they had become very close to each other. Hoot just loved her and her family.
I was finally able to go back and see Hoot around one in the morning. Of course I was nervous not knowing what condition he would be in. As I came into the ICU here he is sitting up in bed laughing away with a few of the Nurses and the Doctor. As Hoot see’s me the tears started flowing, he then tells me what everyone was laughing about. The Doctor had told your dad they would not know for sure the surgery was a success till he went pee. They waited and waited and waited and finally it was time. One of the Nurses was standing next to the bed holding the bed pan, finally it happens. Your Dad missed the bed pan and actually sprayed pee all the way over to the next bed. The surgery was a success.
As your Dad was telling me this story everyone was laughing then he hugs me and tells me, BOY, your wife sure did grow a good kidney. Who would have known that gal I had taken by to meet you Dad almost twenty five years earlier would be the one that would again give us many more years of stories and love. My wife was the Donor. Another Miracle in Hoots life!!!!
I could continue on with many more stories but will save those for another time. I just wanted to share this.
God bless you and the all the family and friends.
Hoot, I am sure you Dad, brother John and Gramma B are having a ball. We ALL miss you and love you!!
Kevin D Jones
Dear Kevin:
I don’t know if I have ever met you, but I am a long time friend and business associate of Hoot, and I remember him talking about your Dad and you. The news is just reaching us down here in Costa Rica, and I would like to talk to by phone, if that would be convenient. You can reach me by email at “[email protected]” and if you send me your phone number I’ll call you.
Steven Wroe
Hey Kevin. I remember dad talking about your father quite fondly many times. He must have been a wonderful man as well. I am so grateful Hoot filled in the gap for you. He was a father figure to many. I never heard the story about the “witch doctor” LOL ! Glad the voodoo worked. I went out to see dad at UCLA after he received his heart transplant. I don’t recall meeting you or my memory is just getting bad. I was married then and my wife and I drove out from Illinois. We got stranded in a snow storm in McLean, Texas and were placed in the local Methodist church in a Sunday school class room. I’ll never forget that trip. My ex-wife was so stressed out she ended up getting bladder infection and had to go to the Tucson hospital emergency room. The lobby was filled with coughing and hacking folks so I dropped her off and got out of that place> LOL ! I would love to share some memories some time. You never mentioned if you are coming to the celebration. I would so love to meet you and your beloved wife. Hoot’s life was punctuated with many miracles. I must have inherited that as I have been through many scrapes as well and should not be here to tell it. Feel free to contact me if you desire. Not being pushy just curious about all my father’s friends and loved ones. I’ll leave my e-mail in case you haven’t seen it in other comments. Much love and respect to you and yours. Sincerely. Kevin Gibson
Kevin Gibson E-mail: [email protected]
Hoot was one person I will NEVER forget . Hoot and my wife were great friends at TWA . When I met Hoot I was a policeman in Chi suburb and we became great friends . . you were one of a kind . lot more to the story of that flt then people know . Rest in peace PAL . We both loved you . Bob and Marcy Allen
Hooter,
Well thats we we called him back home.I met Hooter threw my friend Dave Watts Sr.
Dave and Hooter learned to fly in Sandwich Ill.I remember Dave telling me Hooter could fly anything with wings and sometimes without.Dave had passed back in 2002.He always spoke highly of Hoot.They were the best of friends.Well our friend you were one of a kind and as a fellow pilot we back home will never forget you.
Matt Weismiller
Here’s a side of Hoot that perhaps not too many know about.
In the late 70’s I was with the US Customs Service in Ventura California, we worked primarily drug smuggling investigations involving boats and aircraft. One day a group from Las Vegas Metro PD showed up in town and asked us to assist in an investigation into a group using a DC-7 to smuggle dope from points south to the dry lake beds around Las Vegas. With them was one Hoot Gibson.
During his free time, Hoot apparently volunteered his time and his private aircraft to the LVMP. I flew with Hoot a couple of times on that investigation taking photographs of a ranch in the Santa Ynez valley near Santa Barbara where the crooks were holed up.
I still have a photo somewhere of when Hoot obligingly turned of the engine so that I could get a clear shot of the site through the prop.
Very sorry to hear of Hoot’s passing. I came across his story in an aviation book and was immediately struck on how skilled this pilot was.
Knowing the history of the NTSB at this time,it seems unfortunate that he was made to blame for this incident. Clearly, everyone on this flight is very grateful for the skill that Hoot had on board the aircraft.
Safe Skies..
From Ireland,
While this is a while after Hoot’s passing, I wanted to pass on a note. Hoot was a very close friend back in the day. A group of us started the Schiller Park Ski Club more than 50 years ago. I renamed it the Hustlers Ski Club (after guess what!!)
Hoot never skied but he always brought humor and irreverence to our group. I remember helping him through the trauma of his “crash” with his Ford Cobra. He was pretty well bashed up – they originally thought we was dead. Since he lost his teeth in the accident we invited him over for a steak dinner and gave him a match cover with lines to represent his teeth- Hoot could always take a joke even if he was the subject.
Hoot, Bert Schweppe, John Gesson and Don Steinmetz would go out on Friday night drinking and flying down the Expressway to downtown in Bert’s Oldsmobile convertible (later on his Stingray). Hard to believe they are survived that.
In October 1967, Hoot was a groomsman in the Bert and Judy Schweppe wedding.
In later years, we would visit him in LAS frequently.
In 1995, he made a special trip to Denver to participate in our daughter’s wedding. She only had to call him and say, “Uncle Hoot, can you be there for my wedding?”
Hoot had a reputation for being outrageous, so people who didn’t know him would believe the things said about him. I knew Hoot very well and know in my heart he would never jeopardize the crew and the passengers. Rest in peace, Hoot!
We love you……………Judy
It has been over 2 years now since your celebration of life gathering in Boulder City, what a wonderful celebration it was. You are still in the hearts and minds of many Hooter, we have had to say goodbye to a few more “good ones” who have joined you in these last 2 years (flying West as the saying goes). Emilio has put his book out for all to read, finally getting your side of the story out. Thank you Emilio for doing such a fine job, I am sure Hoot is enjoying the “good read”. For those who don’t know Hoot was laid to rest at the Veterans Cemetery in Boulder City. As his last words to me were “Drop by and see me sometime!” with a smile on his face, just like the Hooter always had, if your are ever there stop by and pay your respects to a legend.
RIP Hoot you were put thru the ringer!
I flew on N840TW six times prior to 1979 but never after that but followed this story closely over the years!
My 2 cents, the crew saved the passengers and plane, mechanical things unexplained happen always have always will and blame the crew was the easy way out!
I met/lived with Hoot when I was I was young guy. He was the most kind and charismatic person I have ever been around. The most amazing stories surrounded him. I am sure in my heart that he saved all aboard that fateful flight. Like most TWA pilots, they were the most skilled in the industry. Pure nature pilots but the kindness people in the whole world. I will always love my Hoot stories. He was the greatest!!
i was a united 727 pilot at the time and remember this incident well.
in my opinion, a lot of pilots would not have recovered from this kind of upset with a single slat out on one side only at 39,000 feet. so ignoring the cause as the only people that know the truth were the 3 in the cockpit at the time, let’s consider this: how many pilots who made an error that resulted in people dying would love to have had their incident end the way hoot’s did, with no serious injuries to anyone? and the reason that it did end that way was because of hoot’s ability to keep a cool head under very trying conditions and improvise a recovery procedure by throwing out the landing gear to regain control of the airplane from its high speed dive.
summarizing, the best pilot to have at the controls of a 727 in a dive with one slat out from 39,000 feet was hoot gibson!
not having known hoot personally but having heard stories and reading about him, i bet he came up with some one liners when he woke up and found out he had a woman’s heart beating in his chest, such as;
i’ll be right with you as soon as i get my lipstick on!
I met Hoot one afternoon in the bar at Pavos airport in Costa Rica. For some reason, he honored me by telling me the whole story of the rudder hardover incident, literally shedding tears as he re-lived it. The year was 1994 as I recall and he was restoring an amphib, a Goose I think. He told me he only wanted to clear his name and would spend the rest of his life doing so. We sat there for some time talking about the inherent problem that was being covered up by the manufacturer, and he predicted that there would be more failures in the future, even mentioning the 737. I think it was about a year or so later that one crashed at Colorado Springs. I never knew Hoot outside that bar, but I thought of him often and told his story as I heard it from him to many fellow aviators. I did not know Hoot had passed until now. Rest in peace to a real hero!
Captain Hoot Gibson was a hero to save all lives on Flight 841. The root cause for this accident was due to the nonlinear instability phenomenon which has been discovered recently by me. There has been a fundamental mistake made in aviation industry for aircraft dynamics. That was why NTSB said one thing, Boeing said another thing, and pilot said a different thing. The autopilot should be blamed for this accident. I included my scientific findings in my book, Nonlinear Instability and Inertial Coupling Effects – The Root Causes Leading to Aircraft Crashes, Land Vehicle Rollovers, and Ship Capsizes, ISBN 9781732632301. The book information is available at http://www.faiteve.com. I made a scientific analysis for TWA Flight 841 accident in my book.
Steve,
I’d love to read your analysis of TWA 841. Can you send me that? Thanks.
Emilio
[email protected]
The nonlinear instability phenomenon is demonstrated in the following video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG2-mu6I11A&feature=youtu.be. The aircraft model is driven only by external pitch moment which may be generated by the control surface of elevator by pilot. No aileron (roll) or rudder (yaw) moments can be applied to the model. The model shows double (roll and yaw) resonances simultaneously at certain pitch frequencies. The resonances were due to the neglected nonlinear inertial moments. This is a dangerous phenomenon. In my book, I provide the detailed analytical solutions and numerical verifications for this phenomenon. I believe that this nonlinear instability caused TWA flight 841 incident. More information can be found in http://www.faiteve.com.
I wish I could have known him.
It has been five years since Hoot’s funeral. We should have some kind of memorial event, no?
I’d like to know the basis of Mr. Young’s comment. Are there any specific incidents on
which to base his accusations? It seems to me that anyone on on Flight 741, April 4, 1979,
would be likely to disagree based upon Hoot’s miraculous recovery of the aircraft. The circumstances that night were so horrific, his regaining control of the plane was a one in a thousand shot, especially since no other aircraft in those conditions was known to
survive.
Spot on, Charles, spot on!
I have never read a more disgusting uninformed comment in my entire life and I am 72 years old. How dare you insult him. He was a great American great pilot just great all the way around.
You should be ashamed. Go somewhere and slap your mother for having you
Mr Young,
I was very disappointed in your remarks as well.
I had the privilege of not only knowing Hoot for over fifty years but flying with him many times.
Our flying started when I was a teenager working on my license in a J-3 cub. Over the years we flew together in multiple types of airplanes including twice in the Ford Trimotor. Not only fixed wing, we loved going out in his Goose and spent many hours together in Helicopters. I always said if a box had wings Hoot could fly it.
What Hoot and his crew did saving so many lives that night was nothing short of a Miracle!! If not for the talent of Hoot and the crew they all surely would have never made it.
If you have not read Emilio’s book I encourage you to do so. I personally know this incident haunted Hoot the rest of his life. He wanted nothing more to clear his name! All of us that new Hoot and loved him have always stood behind him.
I would suggest in the future before you post on someone else’s site be sure you understand the facts.
This could sure save you from looking like an idiot.
Shame on you.
I could not help it I had to respond to your nonsense!
Thank you
Kevin Jones
Tell ’em, Kevin!
Emilio: for your records,this is my new email address, replacing the “…@ice.co.cr” address which will be phased out.
Saludos, Steven Wroe
John, I am not going to argue semantics with you, but just correct some inaccuracies with your response.
First, and foremost, Hoot continued to fly for TWA and retired with TWA. I know…I worked his last flight back to Chicago.
As to the passengers…they have had nothing but respect and gratitude for Hoot…that he was able to save the aircraft from, what seemed, a certain disastrous outcome .
If what you say is true about Hoot creating the issue in the first place… here lays the semantics that I can’t and won’t argue with you.
There is no need to argue about anything. An argument, by definition, suggests strongly that one, or both people involved in an argument are not being reasonable and, therefor, are very unlikely to come to any sort of agreement. The results of an honest investigation, however, by honest and professional people who have no apparent reason to misrepresent the findings of their investigation, are much more likely to reveal and/or find the truth of a matter. That is why the findings and results of the NTSB’s Crash Report of TWA Flight 841 are pretty good indicators, to me, of what happened to cause the near fatal crash of TWA’s Flight 841. One of the NTSB’s quotes are : “After eliminating all individual and combined sources of mechanical failure, the NTSB ruled that the extension of the slats was due to the flight crew manipulating the flap/slat controls in an inappropriate manner.[1]: 2 [7] Investigators believed that 727 pilots ( in general, and on this flight, specifically, ) were setting the trailing edge flaps to two degrees during high altitude cruise, while at the same time pulling the circuit breaker for the slats so that they would not activate. This configuration was rumored to result in increased lift with no increase in drag, thus allowing more speed, higher elevation, or decreased fuel consumption. Flaps and slats were intended to only be deployed at low speeds during take-off or landing.[1]”
Also : “The crew, Capt. Harvey Glenn “Hoot” Gibson, first officer Jess Scott Kennedy, and flight engineer Gary Nelson Banks, denied that their actions had been the cause of the flaps’ extension : ‘At no time prior to the incident did I take any action within the cockpit either intentionally or inadvertently, that would have caused the extension of the leading edge slats or trailing edge flaps. Nor did I observe any other crew member take any action within the cockpit, either intentional or inadvertent, which would have caused the extension.’ Capt. Gibson[8][9] ~ Also, the NTSB made this observation, as well. : ” The NTSB made the following statement in the accident report: “We believe the captain’s erasure of the CVR is a factor we cannot ignore and cannot sanction. Although we recognize that habits can cause actions not desired or intended by the actor, we have difficulty accepting the fact that the captain’s putative habit of routinely erasing the CVR after each flight was not restrainable after a flight in which disaster was only narrowly averted. Our skepticism persists even though the CVR would not have contained any contemporaneous information about the events that immediately preceded the loss of control because we believe it probable that the 25 minutes or more of recording which preceded the landing at Detroit could have provided clues about causal factors and might have served to refresh the flight crew’s memories about the whole matter.[1]: 33 ~ All of this part, and the rest of the NTSB report is pretty conclusive to me. If you believe Capt. Gibson, you have to conclude only one other possibility, to my thinking : that Gibson’s 727’s #7 slat broke catastrophically for no apparent reason and deployed by itself into the airstream, rolling the airplane into a righthand death roll, something that was unexplainable by the Boeing Company, and an event that has never happened before, or since, it, supposedly, broke on that 727 0nly. This possibility is also impossible, from what is known about the slats’ operation, since the airplane’s excessive airspeed would have held the slat in place. even if it broke, somehow. It could only have deployed against the airstream by the tremendous force of the hydraulic slat actuator. No one can tell you what to know about, or what to believe about anything. That is your decision. Nor can anyone tell you who to admire and applaud as your “heroes”. ~ But, to me, the evidence of Gibson’s actions are pretty clear, and they don’t square with his description of his actions, then, or now. And to laud him as some kind of “hero” is at odds with all of the evidence, circumstantial and physical, against him.
Really?
Did I ask for your lengthy (and unnecessary) discussion? No. ALL I did was correct a couple of inaccuracies with your post. All true facts. Have a problem with that?
Hoot continued to fly for TWA after 841. FACT. He went on to retire from TWA. FACT. The passengers on flight 841 consider Hoot a hero. FACT. You obviously like to hear yourself. FACT! ‘Nuff said. FACT!
ROFLMAO !!! God Bless your Heart. Marge, I don’t know who this “person” is that is causing all the disturbance in this thread. They are quite “Full” of themselves and appear to be in good standing with the NTSB. I would like Everyone who knew Hoot to just think of him for who he was. Take care Marge.
No, I have no problem with anyone who likes to point out errors, and wants to find the truth about anything. But, l sometimes do like to reread my comments because they often contain errors, like the ones that you noticed. #1 For instance l was wrong about Gibson being fired from TWA. You are right. Gibson was not fired by TWA, as I wrote, and someone else commented on, as well. And you are right that the passengers, who knew almost nothing about aviation or what happened that nearly caused their deaths in a fatal airplane crash, thought that the two pilots were heroes who saved their lives. ~ However, Pilot Gibson did lose his appeal to the NTSB’s Appeal Board of professional investigators, and peers of Gibson’s, who named him and his copilot as the primary cause of his airplane’s near fatal dive ! So his professional peers in his chosen profession did not ever buy into his absolute demand that they state and agree that he was innocent of any wrongdoing, or was any part of the near fatal loss of control of his Flight 841 ! Nor did they ever name, or regard, him as any kind of “hero” who saved his airplane from it’s perilous and near fatal dive. #2 I was also wrong to label Capt. Gibson as a “bad” man. I don’t know what kind of man Gibson was. But, in my opinion, he did lose his credibility, and any claim of any sort of heroism, and damaged the legacy of his career, by the terrible lack of judgement he exhibited on Flight 841, your opinion of him, not withstanding, But, your opinion is your own, and you have the absolute right to write, retain, and keep it. And one last thing I would like to say to you. I’ve seen my relatives, acquaintances and, even, some close friends, killed in airplane crashes, some of them because of time and unforeseen circumstances, others for making simple mistakes, and others for making really bad errors in judgement. That’s why I don’t have any personal tolerance for the kind of reckless mistake a professional pilot would make, that could cause the people that depend on them, to lose everything, including their very lives.
Whoever this guy is ….
I’m not sure if he has so much more accurate information than the rest of us… but all I was doing was correcting what I know to be erroneous. WITH FACTS!
I, myself, loved flying with Hoot. Never a boring experience!
I’m sorry that you didn’t get to get the full experience of being the “son of your dad “. He most definitely someone you would want to get to know! I’m glad you got the opportunity to connect with him, when he was ready for “adulting”.
Only God knows the full truth of what DID happened on #841. What DIDN’T happen…is that the plane crashed and no one survived. FACT.
Hugs! Marge
I follow this thread because I can clearly see that there was a coverup of a Boeing mechanical issue which had already caused more than one upset. A rudder hard-over, which nobody talks about except Hoot, was the cause of the initial roll. At 39,000 feet, which is where I seem to recall from Hoots story they were cruising, the IAS is quite low, certainly not capable of causing the shedding of a slat! I wish I knew the 727 better, but in the approach portion of a flight the flaps are deployed, maybe around 200 + knots, and the slats don’t suffer damage. In any case, Hoot told me a rudder hard-over caused the yaw, roll, and dive, and I believe him. He predicted that it would happen again, and it did! Colorado Springs and Pittsburgh on the 737 which Hoot said has the same rudder system. That slat, and other parts, were shed during the rolling vertical decent. There are plenty of stories from Boeing and the NTSB, no doubt valid to a certain extent, but an inherent rudder actuator problem caused this incident! This long winded guy here who seems pretty knowledgeable of what it takes to bad mouth a pilot who saved the day, doesn’t seem to know about the rudder problems on both the 72 and the 73. He talks like a Boeing employee! Additionally, the bs story of the FE resetting the CB makes no sense whatsoever, unless of course you are engaged in a cover-up. Nobody resets a CB unless they first try to determine why it was popped in the beginning! And the “trick” to get a little more performance was common knowledge among the crews so there was no way the FE would have done that! No,this guy, whoever he is, has a hard-on for Hoot! Maybe he has the balls to tell us why! What is his background? Lets see. Thats an invitation by the way.
You’re throwing things at the wall, to see if something will stick so you can believe what you want to about the pilots. But only the facts actually stick to the wall. Even, if you’re right about Boeing and the problems with the rudders on the 737s (You are.). So what ? That doesn’t have anything to do with the old 727s, which were pretty good and solid planes, with no issues that l can remember. If you don’t want to believe the two pilots screwed up by setting the flaps to 2 degrees, and pulling the slat CB, circuit breaker so the slats wouldn’t deploy catastrophically, while the FE was in the head, go ahead ! But making a BS statement that you don’t know is true ( It wasn’t.) to support your admiration for Gibson and his copilot, is like spitting upwind. Certainly the Flight Engineer WOULD have reset the slat breaker, which HE DID, when he saw it popped because HE WOULD IMMEDIATELY HAVE THOUGHT IT POPPED ON IT’S OWN BECAUSE OF AN ELECTRICAL OVERLOAD, AND WOULD (and DID) RESET IT TO SEE IF IT WOULD POP AGAIN ! ~ P.S. Gibson’s manually pulling the slat CB was an ILLEGAL act for OBVIOUS reasons ! Flight 841’s rudder had nothing to do with their 727’s uncommanded right roll. lt was the jammed (in the out position) #7 slat that caused the rolling motion, so severe, that none of the proper aileron and rudder inputs the pilots made could overcome the roll caused by the stuck slat ! The #7 slat stuck in the deployed position AFTER the airplane rolled over and sped into trans- sonic speeds. The air loads were so severe, they finally BROKE the slat, and it departed the airplane, ! The NTSB investigators aren’t dummies. Believe whatever you want. But, quit making stuff up about things you are clueless about !
John, I want you to know that this is your last post. I’ve given you plenty of opportunities to learn the truth. The information on this site and in the book Scapegoat clearly explain the sequence of events that led to the near-fatal crash of TWA 841. For whatever reason, though, you are stuck on one theory and unable to consider another alternative. It is a waste of my time and the time of the people who follow this site to continue to engage with you.
John, correct me if I am wrong, but the premise of your position seems simple. You say the FE reset the CB deploying the slats and because of the high speed, #7 failed causing the initial roll. Hi TAS has no bearing on structural limitations. Its only about IAS! Consider this: the IAS at cruise should have been in the neighborhood of around 240 knots, give or take, I think. Vfe on this airplane is somewhere around 245 knots. Even if there was a slat deployment at altitude, nothing is going to fail. After all, parts don’t start falling off during a typical arrival scenario when approach flaps are selected! The IAS on arrival is about the same as in cruise, right? However, the B727 actually did have a history of un-commanded rudder inputs. Everybody knew it and smart guys like Hoot had developed a response to it in the case he ever experienced one. Those were the days when pilots did more than just push buttons, they actually knew how to fly! Did he have the boot-leg configuration of flaps 2* on that nite? Of course he did! It was common practice! Did the upset occur because of it, not no but hell no. Was it illegal, of course! Technically! Just like the hundreds of other things we do once off the ground and into the realm where its not all cut and dried. There is not an FE in the world who would reset a breaker without a discussion with the Captain first. AND, your idea that this procedure was unknown to the FE who was supposedly in the cabin stinks to about 39,000 feet! The very fact that they were up that high says everybody knew exactly what was going on! NO, a rudder hard-over caused the initial roll and dive, but Boeing had to pin the blame on the crew. The NTSB, while not incompetent, went along. Its called political pressure from a huge lobbying group! I dont think anybody here knows your background, but I would challenge you to convince me you are not part of the machine that tried to stain an aviation hero’s reputation in a successful bid to avoid the lawsuits that would flood the courts if it turned out there was a design flaw in the rudder system on both the 737 and 727. Did you at one point work with Boeing or a government agency? Just curious.
I’m not sure if you are saying that they did the unauthorized procedure. They did not. They, like every pilot flying at that time, knew nothing of that procedure. It was a maintenance procedure. The Boeing report was written by engineers, not pilots. All anyone has to do to know that something is off is to look at the actions that TWA took, which was to support the crew. Would any airline continue to employ three pilots who did an unauthorized procedure that nearly killed everyone onboard? The entire circuit breaker story came about because a passenger misidentified a male steward as the flight engineer. The NTSB held a special hearing on this one and only topic. You won’t find any references to pulled circuit breakers in the NTSB report because it never happened.
Probably a wise move Emilio, but let him first respond to my suspicion about his background. Could say a lot if what I suspect is true. BTW, thanks for your hard work. Some of us appreciate it.
I just realized your from Dallas. I wish I had known that years ago. Would like to have met you. I was DFO for Cinemark theaters based at KADS. Retired now living the good life in PI.
Well, I just go by what Hoot told me in person, but I have slept since then! How else could they get the performance needed to make the altitude they had? Were they not at 390?
The service ceiling on the 727 was 42,000 feet. The service ceiling on the 727 based on the weight at the time was 39,000 feet. See the post https://emiliocorsetti.com/the-passing-of-scott-kennedy/ and hear Scott talk about the crazy Boeing scenario.
Thanks for your reply Emilio, usually I dont get involved in these things, but because I believe Hoots story and can see an obvious cover-up, I have become intrigued by it. Keep up the good work!